FRANK CARSON et al 8-22-2016(tom)

POLYGRAPH EXAMINER HAD

DONE LESS THAN 5 EXAMS

FRANK CARSON CASE

08/22/2016

BY WILLIAM THOMAS JENSEN (TOM)

I attended the entire day in court today. Special Agent John Jefferson was on the stand the entire day. He was the polygraph examiner that performed the Robert Woody polygraph on 04/24/2014. It was brought out that John Jefferson had done less than five polygraph exams before doing the one on Robert Woody.


Special Agent Jefferson attended the Baxter School of Lie Detector training in Sacramento. Mr. Jefferson seemed to be nervous, but honest on the stand.

Defense attorney Percy Martinez gets Jefferson to testify that Special Agent Brodie contacted him on 04/24/2016 to do the polygraph examination on the same day that it was done. Jefferson denied making any notes of the examination. Jefferson testified that his old computer was updated to a new computer, and that was the reason he had to go to the High Tech department in Sacramento to find the polygraph results, and video tape. Jefferson testified that he did not remember if he did a video recording of his pre-interview exam of Robert Woody. Jefferson testified that he calls this pre-interview exam a pre-test interview.

Jefferson said that he gave the results to Special Agent Brodie, and Robert Woody’s attorney Bruce Perry. He said he gave the results verbally, and not in a written report. He said he was briefed on what to ask by Special Agent Brodie, and that Brodie gave him the “facts” about the case before he did the polygraph examination on Robert Woody. Jefferson: “I formulated the questions with Brodie’s assistance.

Jefferson stated that he did not recall being told about Robert Woody’s previous statements, and did not hear about the body wire where Woody admitted to killing Korey Kauffman all by himself. Jefferson once again states that he did not take any notes for the polygraph exam. Jefferson stated that he remembers someone coming into the room during the polygraph exam. He did not remember talking to Woody about the results of the exam. He did not remember what was discussed during the pre-test examination. Jefferson stated that he did not remember who told him about Frank Carson being involved in the case. He remembered “something” about stolen antiques.


Jefferson denied being told about Walter Wells and Baljit Athwal, or Walter Wells and Daljit Atwal. He was unaware of Robert Woody’s drug use. He was unaware of Miranda Dykes, Robin Attenhoffer. He was unaware of cell phone use in this case. He did not recall being told anything about Walter Wells and Korey Kauffman. He denied knowing anything about Michael Cooley. He was unaware of any “spot checking” by the Atwal brothers or CHP officers.

Jefferson said that he reviewed the results of the polygraph exam on 08/16/2016, after they were found on his computer. He said that Special Agent Brodie asked him for the complete records during the last couple of days. Jefferson said there was no audio feed to outside of the room where he did the polygraph exam.

Percy Martinez tries to get Jefferson to say that Kirk Bunch had made the request for the polygraph. This is objected to, and his answer was stricken. Judge Zuniga instructs Percy Martinez to put Kirk Bunch on the stand to ask him that question. Percy Martinez is now done with Jefferson.

Defense attorney Robert Forkner had a nice young lady attorney sitting in for him today. I can’t remember her name. My apologies to her. She asks Jefferson if the video-taping turns on manually when he does a polygraph exam. Jefferson said: “Yes.” He did not remember if he turned it on during the pre-test examination. He then stated that the video-taping generally turns on automatically when he starts a polygraph exam. He stated that he does not remember if he checked to see if the examination was being taped.

Defense attorney Jesse Garcia hammers Jefferson about how he remembered any details after 2 years and 4 months since the polygraph exam was done. Jefferson said he reviewed the video tape that was recovered from his computer by the High Tech department in Sacramento. Jefferson tells Jesse Garcia that he does not remember being provided the name of Frank Carson.

It is now after the lunchtime break, and defense attorney Jesse Garcia presents some documents. I notice Kirk Bunch’s pouches bulging out on his cheeks. Silly Wabbit once again. They are the questions that were asked during the polygraph exam.


Jefferson did not recall how many relevant questions were asked on the polygraph exam. He did not recall how many control questions were asked on the polygraph exam. He said he got help from Special Agent Brodie in formulating the relevant questions. He said he formulated the control questions all by himself. He said he performed 3 multi-phase tests and 3 U phase tests, for a total of 6 polygraph tests. He said Robert Woody took a break to speak to his attorney Bruce Perry.

There was a “Big Issue” that came up. Jefferson, in his examination of the results had said that: “Woody showed deception in all his answers to the relevant questions.” Later in his interpretation, he stated that Woody “appears to be telling the truth.” This just does not make any sense to me. Lots of arguments and objections then happened. Judge Zuniga: “The two of you make snotty comments to each other.” That got a chuckle from the audience. The objection was overruled. Jefferson had to admit that there was a conflict with his interpretation of the results.

Defense attorney Timothy Rien had no questions for Jefferson. Defense attorney Hans Hjertonsson gets Jefferson to admit that the Baxter School of Lie Detectors prefers that the pre-test examination be videotaped, but that it was not done in this case.


Defense attorney Martha Carlton-Magana gets Jefferson to testify that he is an employee of the CDCR, is a gang investigator, works on investigating escapes, and investigates threats. He has worked since 2012.

When Jefferson did the Woody polygraph exam, he had worked for less than 2 years, and had performed less than five polygraph exams. I was told by Warren Yates, that the Baxter School of Lie Detectors requires a person to perform 20 polygraph exams before they receive a certification. It seems Mr. Jefferson was not qualified to do the polygraph. If this goes like the rest of this hearing, I am sure Judge Zuniga will certify him as an expert, just like she certified the interpreters who were not qualified.

Defense attorney Martha Carlton-Magana asks Jefferson if it was clear to him that Woody had denied being involved with the killing. Jefferson: “Yes.” Jefferson said that fact did not change the nature of the questions that he asked Woody. Martha asks Jefferson if he asked Woody if he had used drugs before the exam. Jefferson said that he always asks that question before performing a polygraph. Jefferson said he did not see any evidence that Woody was under the influence of drugs during the exam. Jefferson said he was unaware that Woody was taking psychotropic drugs that were prescribed by his physician during the polygraph exam. Jefferson said that Special Agent Brodie helped him adjust the amplitude of the chart while he was doing his interpretation of the results. We are done for the day. Special Agent Brodie will be called back to the stand tomorrow morning at 9:30AM.

Sincerely; William Thomas Jensen

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3 comments

  1. How do the use a polygraph examiner that has not been certified ..? Investigating a capital murder and you use the least qualified guy you can find for the assignment. ?? I think I hear the organ grinder and a little monkey screaming in background…!!

  2. I tell you what, that whiner DA Marlissa and Her two minions bunch and jacobsson need to be put on a lie detector
    They are pulling off some sneaky shenanigans in and out of court
    Get a experienced tester to perform their test and this BS preliminary would be all over

  3. WTF once again, why is Walter Wells still in custody. I really think this DA and her team got way over their heads.

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