FRANK CARSON ET AL CASE
FOR ALL THE MARBLES
BY WILLIAM THOMAS JENSEN (TOM)
Week 10, Day 37
We start out at around 9:12AM with Cathy Grinolds on the stand. Prosecuting DA Marlisa Ferreira continues her direct examination of the witness. Marlisa Ferreira starts talking about Cathy Grinolds seeing 3 men on the Carson property the night that he allegedly disappeared. Marlisa shows Cathy Grinolds People’s 290 which is a picture of Ms. Grinolds house that she was renting in 2012. She recognizes the picture but she states that she can’t see her house in the picture. Marlisa Ferreira shows Ms. Grinolds Exhibit #10 from the preliminary examination which is supposed to show a picture of a platform that was built against the side of the garage on the Carson property. Cathy Grinolds states that she does not recognize what is pictured in the photograph. Ms. Grinolds is asked about what she had testified in the preliminary examination, and says that she can’t remember what she said. Marlisa shows her some transcripts to try to refresh her memory, and she says that it did not refresh her memory. She then reluctantly says that is what she said in the preliminary examination.
Cathy Grinolds testifies that she had spoken to law enforcement on three different interviews, and had told the officers everything that she knew concerning Korey Kauffman. Marlisa Ferreira asks Ms. Grinolds if she told the cops that Ryan Schmidt had fixed a door on the long barn and had fixed some panels on the long barn. Cathy Grinolds says: “No.” This lady is very strange on the stand. She literally shouts yes or no to most of the questions that are asked to her.
Cathy Grinolds now testifies that Valle Carson (Frank’s mother) had asked her to move out of her rental house after she had spoken to the cops. She states that she moved out of the Carson property on August 1, 2012, and that she had lived in the rental house for two years. Cathy Grinolds testifies that Valle Carson told her that she had a friend that needed to move into the rental house.
Cathy Grinolds testifies that she had provided information to the officers, and had told the officers that she was afraid of being evicted from her rental house. There are objections, and we immediately go into a side bar. After the side bar, Marlisa Ferreira shows Ms. Grinolds Exhibit 191. Cathy Grinolds recognizes this as a picture of the area between the Carson property and her next door neighbor’s fence. She states that this is not the fence she is talking about. Cathy Grinolds states that she had to look over the fence to see 3 men who were allegedly on the Carson property. Marlisa shows Ms. Grinolds People’s 146 and asks Ms. Grinolds if she sees her house. Ms. Grinolds: “No.”
Marlisa Ferreira now asks Ms. Grinolds if Frank Carson seemed to be upset when he spoke with her after she had spoken to the cops. Cathy Grinolds: “No.” Marlisa asks Ms. Grinolds if she had told the cops that Frank Carson was “Pissed off.” Ms. Grinolds says: “Yes.” Cathy Grinolds testifies that she was told to move out approximately 2 months after she had spoken to the cops. Cathy Grinolds testifies that her son Sean Grinolds had never lived with her in the rental house. She says that her son would come by to visit, and was present when Frank Carson had come over to talk with her. Cathy Grinolds testifies that she had told Frank Carson that her son was in drug rehab. Ms. Grinolds recalled that the cops had come over to look around the property. Ms. Grinolds is asked if she had told the cops to get ahold of Valle Carson for permission. Ms. Grinnolds says that she told the cops to get ahold of Frank Carson because she knew that he was a lawyer. Ms. Grinolds testifies that she never had called Valle or Frank Carson for assistance. We now have another side bar. After the side bar, Marlisa Ferreira asks Ms. Grinolds if she was given a 30 day notice to move out of the rental property. Ms. Grinolds: “Yes.” Ms. Grinolds testifies that she had seen holes in the famous fence. This is the first time I have heard of more than one hole in the fence. She states she had seen the holes along the back, and that there was at least one hole on the left hand side of the fence. She described the hole as being a big one approximately 2 feet by 2 feet. She states that she had seen items lying around on the Carson property which included a double decker bus, storage containers, an old rusted car, etc. She states that she never stepped foot on the Carson property. She testifies that the containers were closed, but she could not see if they were locked.
Cathy Grinolds testifies that she did not hear gun shots the night that Korey Kauffman allegedly disappeared. Marlisa Ferreira immediately starts pressing her on this statement, and Ms. Grinnolds states that she can’t remember what she said in her preliminary examination testimony. She gets refreshed with some transcripts, and after some arguments says that she had heard some gun shots. She states that she had often heard gun shots in that neighborhood, and that these shots did not seem to be any closer than the usual gun shots that she had heard.
Cathy Grinolds is taken out of the courtroom, and Judge Zuniga starts talking about some wire- tap transcripts. It concerns a wire- tap where Cathy Grinolds is talking about her “Maternal instincts” and how she felt there was a dead body in the long barn on the property. Judge Zuniga is having trouble with her computer, and can’t pull up her notes that she had made during the preliminary examination. She had made a ruling at the time, and needs to be able to review her ruling. Judge Zuniga tells Marlisa Ferreira to just ask Ms. Grinolds if she had told the police about the long barn. Marlisa opts to not ask Ms. Grinolds any further questions at this time. The jury is brought back into the courtroom, and Cathy Grinolds is brought back to the stand.
Defense attorney Percy Martinez takes over on cross examination. Ms. Grinolds testifies that she has not spoken to the cops after she testified in the preliminary examination. Percy starts asking Ms. Grinolds about speaking with Detective Ken Barringer, and Ms. Grinnolds states that she thinks she had spoken to Kirk Bunch. Marlisa Ferreira stipulates that Cathy Grinolds had spoken to Barringer. Percy asks Ms. Grinolds if Barringer had given her a flyer about Korey Kauffman. She was not certain about this until she was shown a report, and then she remembers Barringer showing her the flyer. She testifies that she told Barringer that the picture of Korey Kauffman looked familiar, and that she had seen Korey Kauffman recently. She states that she never saw Korey Kauffman on the Carson property. Cathy Grinolds testifies that her son came over when Barringer was at her house. Cathy Grinolds testifies that she told Barringer that Ryan Schmidt had reinforced the doors and had put some siding on the long barn. She states that she never told Barringer about the three men on the Carson property that she had allegedly seen on the deck.
Percy Martinez shows Cathy Grinolds Exhibit 325, and she does not recognize the photograph. She states that the photo was not shown to her in the preliminary examination. Ms. Grinolds testifies that she was asked about the area next to the garage, and speaks about a platform. She states that the platform is not in a picture that she was shown. Kirk Bunch came by her house on 06/27/2012 and interviewed Ms. Grinolds. Cathy Grinolds says that Kirk Bunch had asked her if she had ever seen Korey Kauffman before. Cathy Grinolds says her knowledge of Korey Kauffman came from the flyer that she was given by Detective Barringer. She states that she does not still have the flyer that was given to her.
Cathy Grinolds testifies she does not know who it was that called the long barn a chicken coop. She had told one of the cops that it was not a chicken coop. Cathy Grinolds says that she saw Ryan Schmidt working on the walls of the long barn. She testifies that she saw Ryan working on the walls after the raid by the officers during the search warrant. She testifies that she remembers telling the cops that Ryan Schmidt had fixed the walls. She remembers Frank Carson telling her to call him if she ever saw anybody stealing anything from his property. Cathy Grinolds denies ever seeing anybody ever stealing items from the Carson property. Ms. Grinolds denies talking about the three men on the platform, but admits that she had talked about the three men in the preliminary examination.
Cathy Grinolds testifies that she could only see the deck when she was driving in her car down 9th street. She describes the deck as a platform that was attached to the garage with a table and chairs. She states that the deck was five feet four inches tall. I wonder how she knows the exact size? Ms. Grinolds states that she never saw any stairs that led up to the deck, or a ladder that could be used to access the deck. She states that the deck was present when she moved into her house, and was present when she moved out of her house. She states that she never walked to the complete back of the property while walking around. It is now time for our morning break. It is 10:53AM.
At 11:18AM, the jury is brought back into the courtroom, and Cathy Grinolds is brought back to the stand. Percy Martinez shows her People’s 191. Ms. Grinolds recognizes the fence in the picture. She testifies that she never saw people walking onto the Carson property. She states that she would frequently smoke cigarettes outside, and would walk around, and had never seen any pipes stacked up on the Carson property.
Ms. Grinolds states that she had testified yesterday about the deck, and that she can’t see the deck in the photograph because it is being hidden by a white trailer that is in front of it. She admits that she had testified yesterday that she could see the deck, even though that was proven today to be untrue. There was an objection which was sustained concerning this. Cathy Grinolds denies that she ever saw a group of men patrolling the Carson property.
Cathy Grinolds testifies that she saw an elderly man on a tractor plowing a field next to the Carson property. She points this field out in an overhead picture that was shown (People’s 323. She testifies that she had seen the containers on the Carson property, and had never seen any of them being moved. She states that the handyman Ryan Schmidt would come over to her house, and would sometimes bring his son with him. She states that she had seen another adult man help Ryan Schmidt repair a roof on the property.
Cathy Grinolds testifies that she would hear gun shots in the neighborhood from time to time. She testifies that she does not recall what she told the investigators concerning the gun shots on the night that Korey Kauffman allegedly disappeared. She gets refreshed on this subject. She admits that she had said that she had not heard any gun shots on that night.
Percy Martinez now tries to nail down exactly when Ms. Grinolds moved out of the rental house. Percy Martinez knows that Ms. Grinolds moved out on 11/01/2012, and Ms. Grinolds says she moved out at the end of August of 2012. I have heard that rental receipts will prove that Ms. Grinolds moved out of her rental house on 11/01/2012. I wonder why she is trying to conceal the actual date that she moved out?
Percy starts asking Ms. Grinolds about an interview she had with Detective Frank Navarro on 07/19/2012. She remembers the interview after being refreshed. The interview was a couple of days after the search warrant was served on the Carson property. She admits that Detective Navarro had asked her about Frank Carson. She does not remember talking to Navarro about Frank Carson asking her to not talk to the police. We are now done with the morning session. I will be there tomorrow morning to report on what I see.
Sincerely; William Thomas Jensen (Tom)
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