Tonight’s podcast on the Frank Carson, et al trial on October 5, 2018, there was a little bit of fireworks at the end today and I don’t know all the details. I will find out what I can . They had an in camera hearing. They cleared the courtroom. Typically in camera hearings are done in judge’s chambers, but this involved everybody and she wanted the defendants to hear everything instead of through the headsets. It was right at the end of the day there were some motions filed and some other things. I don’t know all the details so I can’t really talk intelligently about it all.I know you guys are saying I can’t talk intelligently anyway, but on apparently the gist of it is and not give any specifics because I don’t really know any specifics, somebody is being accused of having a contact with jurors during the lunch hour, which is the ultimate no no, if it happened. We’ll see what comes out of it. I’ll see what I can find out anything this weekend, and then I’ll update you as I find out.
Tom’s report is up. If you listen to noon report we were just going through a lot of preliminary stuff, they’re going through pictures, they are keeping the jury out of the courtroom because they have to decide what photos can be used. to tell the honest truth this should of been done already, this is what in limiting motions are for. These types of things should be done prior to the trial, so you can run smoothly through a trial. That’s not what’s happening in this trial. We’ve had days with a juror’s have been in the courtroom half a day in the morning session, one day was 19 minutes they were in the courtroom hearing evidence, the other day was 35 minutes, this morning they heard a few witnesses and we are going through witnesses fairly quickly right now but it’s just the surface stuff. Just validating pictures, validating what little bit evidence they think they have. DOJ was on the stand it again today, the gentleman I called Mr. McGruff. He wanted a nickname, so I gave McGruff, the crime dog and he told me today he liked that, he was tickled about it.
The judge wanted the attorneys back at 1:15 today to try to get into some of these issues. They were stipulating to some and not stipulating that others blah blah blah blah you know that goes. Percy Martinez’s objected that the People are just trying to get in more character evidence with these pictures and there are wanting to protect themselves from false accusations. Now that could be true, I don’t know.
They were talking about Officer DeAlda, now Lieut., then-sergeant. He talked briefly to Frank Carson on the sidewalk and apparently he had to talk to somebody else that was involved in the Korey Kauffman case and he recorded that conversation with Frank Carson to protect himself from false accusations. There didn’t seem to be any hostility in the conversation the only talked briefly and they were going to get the back get together later on. Frank Carson was looking for a more controlled situation so he can record the conversation, even though the officer said he was recording the conversation, but that raised the suspicions of Frank Carson even more. Again Percy Martinez said it’s just character evidence they are trying to impugn the reputation of Frank Carson. They are not really putting up facts at this time. Remember this is in regard to the November 2013 burglary of his office. It did not appear anything of substantial was taken, but it did look like they went through some files and possibly photographed them and that was it while Frank Carson was in the middle of the AJ Pontillo trial.
Attorney Hans argued that all questions asked were a response to the DA’s direct. To give the background on it, he says the DA had argued that the defense is bringing up the his character as evidence and Hans is saying, no we are not. We are responding to the DA’s questions that she asked in direct. judge Zuniga was wondering how this is referring to the tape and Jai Gohel said this is a tape of the officer recording Frank Carson on that interview on H St.
Jai Gohel noted that Sgt. Nikolai’s tape, the one that his trainee took with his body can tape, brought up some of those issues and he doesn’t know why the DA even brought up this tape at all, let alone cut out parts of it. She could’ve edited it, redacted it, whatever and bring in portions of it in. This is where Frank Carson and Sgt. Nikolai were talking about they had had a case prior with each other. They were being real friendly, just talking. Nikolai said they were just both doing their jobs. Jai Gohel is saying and I thought it was a good argument because she’s bringing this up this information in direct and now she’s accusing a defense of using character evidence saying Frank Carson’s a good guy. She brought it into evidence and that’s what Jai Gohel is arguing. Other things that the DA wanted do with some of the reports are who told them what about the Kauffman case is multiple layers of hearsay. Law enforcement officers talking about Frank Carson accusing law enforcement officers of lying. Again that’s what somebody was telling somebody else it’s multiple layers of hearsay. Jai Gohel continued saying the DA is continuing arguing the defense put this Frank Carson’s character in the play and he’s saying, “no he didn’t, she did”. if a defendant, for example, gets up on the stand and says, “oh I wouldn’t do that I’m a nice guy”. he’s putting his character in the play and then it’s game on for everything that he’s done. Jai Gohel is saying they haven’t done that, this is the DA, it is still the DAs case in chief. She put this evidence on and now she saying the defense put into play.
They were done arguing. Judge Zuniga, I could tell she was reading the real time on the computer and she was looking at the arguments. This what she does because she said she had great hearing, but she doesn’t hear a lot of things that are said. She relies on the computer almost entirely when there’s objections. In the questions that all this happened after, they were following up on the tape, so some of these questions actually even went beyond that the video that was played. She said there was one problematic question and she didn’t specify what it was, but the bulk of the questions were based on the recording itself and not putting on character evidence. They never said anything like that they just disputed or were questioning things that were on the tape itself. She says and she looked at Marlisa Ferreira, the law prohibits character evidence. She says it’s simple that’s all there is to it, it is black letter law. So people cannot cannot say their feelings toward in regard to questions about somebody’s character and that’s kind of where she was leading this Lieut. Now and it torches his character, that’s where the questions were going. She said there’s also questions about the door was open, about the character of a person that will leave the door open, something along that line, so that she’s not allowing the DA to use a character evidence. She says the defense is not put that out there. So it got a little confusing, I know I sound confused and I am. Basically Marlisa Ferreira put this video of the conversation with Nikolai and then is trying to turn that into defense is trying to make that Frank Carson’s is of good character, so she saying that’s character evidence so she can go into that now. In addition to the other audiotape with now Lieut.Rigo DeAlda and that he the recording that he did to protect himself with Frank Carson.
The jury finally came back back in around the 1:47. Lieut. DeAlda back on the stand. DeAlda said on the stand that Carson knows there’s a link between Kirk Bunch and Mike Cooley, but he said there was no link found to Mike Cooley in the burglary of his office in November 2013. he personally never did any surveillances of the Frank Carson office. He also noted that it was a policy that a community service officer comes in, to scenes like that, and takes evidence like pictures and if there’s fingerprints or whatever. He said photos are typically taken if they have evidence of value and he had some information from the crime report that he felt that there probably should be some pictures taken. He says it’s normal procedure to take pictures if there’s damage. He said the Frank Carson said he didn’t want to talk until he could record. He did tell him he is being recorded right now at that time and to be honest with you it wasn’t a very good recording because it was on the street a lot of traffic,a lot of noise, you really couldn’t hear everything that was said. He said Frank Carson accused him of being dishonest. Frank Carson, he said, kept insisting that they set up an appointment to discuss and follow all this up and he had called Frank Carson twice to try to schedule an appointment to talk to him and this was done through the office. Apparently he left messages. There was no response back from Frank Carson and he advised on the second time he called the case would be suspended if Frank Carson did not contact him to make an appointment. Eventually the case was suspended because called Frank Carson twice he didn’t receive any response so he finally just suspended the case. He said that Frank Carson said business records were taken, but there was no real accounting of the property taken, so there is no property sheets done. They do give green copies of property sheets when they take calls of burglaries and he had never had given him a property sheet but he did discuss that was Frank Carson that day on the street. During this whole thing there was multiple objections, almost ongoing saga. There is a sidebar at that time. Again he had not received any property list. No further questions on this. The defense didn’t cross examine anymore on this, which surprised me.
The DA then called Nathan Monsibo back to the stand. Remember Department of Justice criminalist who took photos on the search warrants, a couple times in 2012 and in 2014. this is the gentleman that asked what kind of nickname I was going to give him the last time I talked to them. I did nickname him a McGruff. The crime dog so he was pleased with that name. He’s a really nice guy, so everything’s good. They talked about the the search warrant on 9th Street on July 15, 2012 he had taken photos. He was also at 1190 Street which is a Pop and Cork and he was part of that action there too and many photos were taken. He had actually taken photos that at both scenes. They gave a list of pictures there’s 12-13 of them. It was just photos of the back room, some of the shelves, the coolers of drinks on a shelf by the back door, the shelves of liquor in the back of the business, another shelf in the back of the business they had a large TV back there with the CCTV displayed on it, there were shelves that had alcohol with two long guns sitting on it, cooler area, there’s a photo of some liquor in the front of the store, another angle from the same thing, pictures of behind the counter, underneath the register, looking down the hallway type picture and there was a different angle that one from the opposite direction. There was a picture of a cell phone with a missed call from Walter Wells CHP, it’s what it said on the caller ID. there was a second picture was taken of the same screen. She had no further questions.
Hans Hjertonsson asked about the photos that for pictorial evidence and he said that he took a lot of those pictures if he saw something that he might need and and some of them were taken when something was pointed out by other agents. Looking at picture number #439 and that was a shelf with the multi-screen CCTV on it was in the back room, he did not recall if someone had told him to take that picture or that he took it upon himself. He was asked if he took any other photos of any other TVs or could be monitors anywhere else in store? There was an objection. Sidebar, a little bit of a lengthy sidebar. Attorney Hans again asked if any other monitor pictures taken and apparently not, they just confirmed that that monitor for that TV was in the back room, it was behind a closed door but he didn’t remember if the door was locked or if it had to be forced open or what the situation was. He did not remember who had actually went into that back room first, if it was him or somebody else. Hans didn’t have anymore questions.
the DA had one question. She asked him if there were any locks the door? He said no I don’t recall any locks on the door. He was done and he left the room and that’s when I asked about the crime dog McGruff thing.
The Judge sent the jury out at 2:29 PM and sent them back to the jury room. They took a little break and when I came back in the judge was already on the bench. She was not happy and she’s chastising Marlisa Ferreira. She saw Tony Kaufman doing something totally inappropriate and was chastising the DA. I don’t know what he did. I didn’t see it. I didn’t hear it. Apparently it happened in the courtroom and she said that type of thing does not belong in is courtroom. The DA said that she would deal with that.
They started talking about the differences between brandishing a weapon which is under 417 of the Penal Code and assault with a deadly weapon which is under 245 the Penal Code. Percy Martinez claims that there’s a difference and why they’re arguing that is because of Dominic Saldana’s testimony where he said that Daljit Atwal had pointed a gun at him, called him a tweaker and told him to get out of the store. The laws could’ve changed too. She saying that a 417 is a brandishing, it’s a weapon that’s displayed in a threatening manner. Judge Zuniga says that applies to all weapons, except a handgun. I’m not sure about that, I’ll look it up later. She says if he used a handgun in the manner that Dominic Saldana said, it’s an assault with a deadly weapon, even though shots weren’t fired, he just pointed a handgun at somebody, it’s assault with a deadly weapon. I’m not real sure about that, but the laws could’ve changed since I was doing some of the stuff. It doesn’t matter if the gun was loaded or not and that I believe is very true. So they had this argument about the 417. Hans says it does say other than a handgun. He kinda missed that kind of first, but he said if you look at the next section it refers to a firearm. So there still kinda going around. there’s a long conversation about what happened with Dominic Saldana 245 versus 417 assault with a deadly weapon versus the brandishing a weapon.
We took a break. At 3:45 PM we came back in and the judge immediately pulled all the attorneys into chambers. The attorneys came out and they went into what they call the quiet room, it’s in between the 2 doors leading courtroom and they had a talk. Marlisa Ferreira and Kirk Bunch they went off the side were having a serious talk, they were huddled together have a conversation. I noticed the judge out by the bench, not in her robe, talking to the bailiff. I knew something was up. After they came back from their meetings, the judge took him into chambers again. It was brief they came back out about two minutes.
Let me go back, during that break that we had, there was a very unhappy Pebbles Woody have a little bit of a tiff with Steve Jacobson at the metal detectors, you could hear it. Then he came up the stairs. She came up the stairs, very unhappy. Beverly Woody in tow, not too far after that Robert Woody Sr. Pushing her wheelchair. She was not happy, but she was the next witness that they wanted to bring in. So all the attorneys and Marlisa came to a stipulation. Just to clarify a stipulation is where they all agree on the facts.
The jury came back up. Marlisa a recited the stipulation that Pebbles Woody had called investigators and had talked to Jon Evers on August 19, 2015, after the search warrant had been served. She says that Daljit and Baljit Athwal tried to get them to go against the investigators because they said they didn’t do it. So that’s what Pebbles Woody would have testified to, if she’d said anything. She was outside the courtroom, she was huddled in a corner almost in a fetal position. It was obvious she wasn’t going to do well on the stand. So that was a stipulation made at this time.
They called Tim Redd, Turlock Police department to the stand. Talked about his experience, 10 years with Turlock Police Department. Prior that he was Hughson Police Department when they had a Police Department and then Oakdale Police Department prior to that. In 2013 he was assigned to the missing person case of Korey Kauffman and he was on the case until around November 2013. his duties included writing search warrants. He had done one for an Apple iCloud and served it on the legal department of the Apple Corporation in Cupertino in regards to Frank Carson, Daljit Atwal and Baljit Atwal. The search warrant was signed by the judge and he received iCloud information on the thumb drive from Apple. He had the thumb drive with him in the court and also a certificate of custodian of records that that’s a legalese that they have to do. There was a picture of Frank Carson holding holding the box of ammo that had been discussed earlier and one .22 caliber of that in his left hand. It looked like he was in his kitchen or something with a box of shells. It was a bullet, a single round of ammo that somebody had taken on an iPhone. That was it for the questions, so they just wanted to show the Frank Carson at access to ammunition, whatever that’s worth.
Percy Martinez asked him if the image was taken on February 20, 2013 he said yes. The photo was dated on the iCloud, so he did know when the picture was taken. It was a year after the alleged homicide and that’s exactly what Jai Gohel asked him if that would be about 11 months after March 2012. that was all the questions they had for Redd.
They talked about schedule for the jury’s sake the coming back in at 930 AM on Tuesday and the jury was released for the day.
Percy Martinez who argued to the court that the affidavit that was written is questionable and he has some questions about that. He saying that some of the things are incomprehensible of what was written. I think there’s another issue that can be brought up later. Hans noted that in those records, in that thumb drive there were other people’s records that were not testified to or not testified about. I don’t know who it was that he was talking about, but there are not testified to.
Judge Zuniga overruled Percy Martinez’s argument but she said Hans is made a valid argument, so those files need to be redacted.
So that was when the courtroom was emptied. There was a little confusion about that to tell you the truth, because judge says that Jai Gohel is going to make his motion. Apparently, there’s an altercation of some sort and in the courtroom or the hallway, so Jai Gohel was going to make his motion. It’s easier to empty the courtroom of two or three people than fit everybody in your office. So I sat outside for a while. All I know there was an altercation and they are saying that somebody had contact the juror during the lunch hour, that’s what it sounds like the whole thing is about. I will find out more as I go along here and we’ll get it all figured out and I’ll let you know.
That’s it for the day! Good night Everybody!
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