Good evening everybody, this is Marty from DAWG’s Blog with tonight’s podcast on Tuesday, March 12, 2019 on the Frank Carson et al trial. Victor Navar was on the stand all day today. It got very interesting this afternoon.
One note is we talked about the 969B packet that Hans Hjertonsson was requesting from Marlisa Ferreira and I did find out that it is a prison packet from Dept of Corrections concerning where they’ve been housed in their CDCR life. Sometimes it will include discipline, but typically that’s not usually what it is, it is just for where and what kind of housing they’ve had. So just to clear that up, I mentioned it this morning and thought I’d get that out to you.
The jury was up at 1:32 PM and the Judge was on the bench at 1:33 PM. We did very well this afternoon. Attorney Hans is still doing cross examination. He asked Victor Navar if the interview on 4/20/17, with Marlisa Ferreira and Kirk Bunch, if he told them he was talking “on the wall”. He kind of said that he’d never heard that term earlier, but he was refreshed and then said he had used that term in this interview. So basically what he was talking about is they both were talking around the wall because their cells were next to each other. Hans asked if the Athwals had said something to the effect of “they buy him shit” meaning Robert Woody to play him to get him into doing something like killing Korey Kauffman.
He didn’t recall making the statement and that they had said that. He did refresh. It was funny, also, he said he has a hard time understanding Hans Hjertonsson and his accent, which is really not much of an accent. Hans Hjertonsson, of course, is Swedish. But apparently he had no problems understanding the heavy accents of Bobby and D Athwal.
He said the Athwals would buy Robert Woody stuff. He told Kirk Bunch they paid for his dental work and they were working Robert Woody to “kill the boy”. But he did say prior to homicide he wasn’t sure they were working Robert Woody up to it, but they may have been working him up after the homicide. Hans was asking if these were Kirk Bunch comments said to him and some of them were. He was asked again if when he was arrested he faced 25 years to life exposure? He said no. A homicide with this type of circumstances, the Judge confirmed the other day, he was facing 25 years – life when he was first arrested for his case. This is what he’s telling Marlisa Ferreira and Kirk Bunch, Robert Woody got a deal for 11 years and will do 85% and will get more off if possible. So he was talking like Robert Woody, he will do 85% of the 11 years and there is a possibility he could get more good time credits off his sentence. Hans Hjertonsson asked him if there is a possibility he could be out in 2 years? He’s been in custody about 7 years now. He says: I wouldn’t want to speculate. But the point was made.
Percy Martinez went on cross. The first question he asked was would you lie to get a lighter sentence right here in court today? Of course he said no, he wouldn’t. He said he used to be a south-sider, meaning Sureno, but now he’s not, but he’s also not a Northern Rider. Northern Riders are a prison gang, mostly for drop outs to get protection in the prisons. I believe that is how it works. He was asked if he had a playboy bunny tattoo that the Northern Riders use? He said it is similar, but different, it is not the Northern Rider tattoo.
Talked about how on 7/29/16, he was in the south single cell tier. He was in cell #8 and the Athwals were in cell #2, there were 5 cells between them originally. Navar said they did talk daily, as he had the phone ready for them when they got back from court. So, he was doing them a big favor by holding the phone and keeping other people off the phone to have it ready for them when they got back from court to make their phone calls. (Why was he doing that?) He gave the interview on 4/20/17 and said he didn’t know anything until October 3, 2016. He said he didn’t really recall the exact dates and so he did refresh. Again he said he didn’t know anything prior to 10/3/16 and that was the days Robert Woody was testifying in the preliminary hearing, from 10/3/16 on through about 2 weeks. On October 3, 2016 they’d been moved over right next to his cell. He was still in #8 and they were right next to him. He told Kirk Bunch that everybody knew about Frank Carson and the case he’d been charged with murder, but he didn’t know the brothers were charged as co-defendants. When they got back from court they would go to his cell to use the phone and walked from #2 to #8 to get the phone. They were still in #2 at that time. So apparently, they weren’t locked down in their cells, since they were able to walk down to his cell to get the phone. He said he didn’t know anything about the case at that time. Then they moved the Athwals closer to him and he had no problems understanding Daljit Athwal.
Percy Martinez asked him if Frank Carson was in custody at the time on his own homicide case? He said yeah, he was. The conversation with the Athwals occurred near the end of the 10-11 days they’d been over there. They were trying to nail it down on how long they had been there before they really started talking. Victor Navar said he’d go with about 6 days, so he was kind of guesstimating. He didn’t really know. He had to refresh more and more and more with the transcript of that interview with Kirk Bunch and Marlisa Ferreira.
Percy Martinez started asking a question and Marlisa Ferreira objected and he never really got the question out and they went to a sidebar. And so I don’t really know what that was about.
When they came back, again talking about the 4/20/17 interview, he told them that Frank Carson was upset that people were going to his house. He didn’t really recall saying that. He had to refresh his testimony again. He said he did say that Frank Carson was mad about people going into his house. Percy Martinez ask did Marlisa Ferreira step up and correct him that it was his property and not his house. He didn’t recall. Refreshed again. Marlisa Ferreira did say property, yes, he said.
Percy Martinez wanted to have a conference with the other defense attorneys for a minute, so they stepped outside. They jury also stepped outside at 2:17 PM, they just went down by the elevators. We took a five minute recess.
We came back and Percy Martinez continued talking about the 4/20/17 interview. He asked about giving the information on his cellie, Garcia, AKA Fox? He didn’t recall. He says didn’t you give testimony to the Grand Jury? He said Oh yeah, that’s true, I did. He asked if he also gave information on the Athwals, his cellie – Garcia and the other guy who had his cell by the showers called Gangster, he could remember what his name was. Marlisa Ferreira wanted more information on anything else he may know. He did make a comment at the end of the interview and said this would help him out of his issues. There was no further questions.
Marlisa Ferreira went on redirect. She asked what did I say after you said it would help you out with your case? This led to a sidebar. He said that Marlisa Ferreira told him that she will go back and review the evidence and if it could be corroborated it could help. She asked him how old he was in 1995? (I don’t understand why she asked that). He said 21 or 22, he hedged around and said I don’t know. So Marlisa Ferreira asked what she should have asked in the first place, what year were you born? So in 1995 he was 20 years old and had 3 misdemeanor convictions under penal code 148.9, giving false information to a police officer.
There was an objection in regards to that. Another sidebar.
She came back from the side bar and asked if he’d ever been convicted of assault with a deadly weapon? He said no. Have you ever been convicted of an attempted 187? He said no. He hasn’t attempted it, he’s succeeded in doing it, that is what he’s charged with now.
His cousin Velasquez took him to Mexico after the drug rip off had happened and he gave his cousin a bunch of drugs in exchange for payment. In regards to where he left his friend to bleed out, was it during the “drug rip”, that’s how they kept referring to it. The other side had tried to rob him of the money and he said they fired first. It is interesting the area Marlisa Ferreira chose to go into at this point. (What do I know I’m an idiot when it comes to legal things) He said they fired first, but he’d gone to rip off the drugs. They went armed. Navar said he had $198,000 cash with him. It was in a bag, so he went armed to protect the money. The weed was worth $165,000 and he was going to keep $33,000 for himself.
I noticed about this time, I had glanced briefly at Judge Zuniga and she had a horrified look on her face. Now Judge Zuniga is very expressive in her face, you can watch and see what she thinks about something by looking at her face. She doesn’t have a poker face.
Marlisa Ferreira was talking about how they were going to rip off the drug dealers for there marijuana, it was a marijuana deal, they had all this money with them. The drug dealers were going to rip them off for the money, so they were both going there, somewhere South Modesto, to rip each other off. He went out to get the money, he came back in and they had his partner on the ground with a gun to his head and said give us the money and he started shooting. He says they shot at him first and he started shooting. He took on of the other guys out. His partner was also shot and he said he got up on the freeway took Keyes Rd exit going to his partners relative’s house. His partner told Navar, according to Navar, to just leave him here. His relative wasn’t home at the time and he’ll wait for his relative. So Navar got him out of the car and left him on the side of the road and that’s where his partner bled out.
There was a sidebar. The Judge was very animated talking to Marlisa Ferreira. I have no idea what was being said.
When they came back from the sidebar. He said he was a south-sider and dropped out in the 90’s, he went back and dropped out again in 2012. I wasn’t aware that type of thing happens, but I guess it could. He got housed with a Northerner, who apparently was a drop out, Mr. Garcia AKA Fox. So they put a southerner drop out in with a northern dropout in with the Northern Riders.
Marlisa Ferreira asked him about Armando? He was an accomplice in the drug rip and he was also a co-defendant in his case. He did give information on his co-defendants and those cases have already pled out.
Marlisa Ferreira asked how they broke the ice and starting talking? He said they were talking about the lawyers. His lawyer was Bruce Perry and associates, the same lawyers that had Robert Woody. They were all agreeing they were crooked lawyers. He said they would help him and they would get Frank Carson as his lawyer to take his case. They said Frank Carson will beat his case, because he’s too smart. They were talking about Marlisa Ferreira too, because all the attorneys were smarter than she was in their opinion?
She asked him if he was ever in general population? He said yes, back in the 90s. He said general population is more politics, more respect, more unity and more love. He said the guys respect you more and give you love. He said in protective custody, they are mostly dropouts and don’t follow the rules of the gangs. He said there are sex offenders in PC too. He had asked originally to be in PC, the first time was in the 90s, then in 2012 due to his dropout status and concerned for his safety. He says testifying in the homicide cases have put hits out on his head. At the very least what they’ll do is beat his a&&, at the most they will kill him.
He said he controlled TV volume due to the remote control being in his possession. He always had the phone ready for them after court. He was doing them a favor. Marlisa Ferreira asked why would you do them a favor? He said they are red and white, just like me. He’s saying it is a camaraderie thing.
On cross exam he talked about talking thru the bars and she asked him about deputies walking the tiers and during the conversations. He said no, they weren’t walking the tiers, we wouldn’t talk if they were around.
She asked him who the prosecutor was who handled the case when he was offered 21 years? And then was offered 16 years. That was Lugero, by the way, who is leaving the DA’s office. I forget his first name. After the Athwals information he got a deal struck for 11 years. But that deal was not made with Lugero, but with Marlisa Ferreira and she handled the plea agreement, the testimonial agreement and his court appearance, Lugero was not there.
She asked him about the person that died, Armando, who was supposedly his friend? Judge Zuniga cut that off and said it is not relevant. He said he didn’t want to leave Armando, but Armando requested he leave him on the side of the road by his friend or relative’s house.
On June 15, 2012, the interview he had with Det. Martin, also included Dale Lingerfelt (I don’t know who he was with at the time, Modesto PD or DA’s office).
He emphasized there was no planning of this robbery they just wanted to go do a drug rip. She asked him about when the defense had him refresh on the testimony he gave before. He kept saying he didn’t plan any robbery, he just wanted to make $33,000. He was trying to make a deal to get some money. He said he went to the car to get the money, when he came back they were holding a gun to his friends head. He wouldn’t give up the money and so they shot his friend, apparently. That’s when he fired back and ended up killing one of them. He wounded another and then he’d went to Eddie’s house, he didn’t go home, he left his friend there to wait. He said that was what Armando wanted. Then he called Alex Velasquez, who took him to Mexico in exchange for drugs. He’d told Alex what had happened.
He said he was scared when he got back. It was only 3 weeks later when the Marshals brought him back, so he lied to officers. He was afraid of going to jail, but is not afraid of going to prison now. Marlisa Ferreira asked him if he was under oath when he was talking to officers? He said no, it was just an interview. She said as you sit here today in court now you know you are under oath now? He says of course, I know I have to tell the truth.
Marlisa Ferreira asked if he had ever admitted any part of the robbery? He didn’t recall if he had or not. She refreshed with a transcript and he says he never did admit to part of the robbery.
We took a break. The jury was out for about 25 minutes. They came back at 3:27 PM. Marlisa Ferreira was going back to the 4/20/17 interview. He knew Frank Carson was in custody prior to the Athwals talking. He never read the Ramey warrant or watched TV news, he never read the newspaper or read the blogs. He said he never read any discovery from the Frank Carson case and no discovery has ever been presented to him to read by anybody.
She confirmed the information he’s giving in regard to the Athwals was directly from the Athwal’s mouths themselves. He said due to the lawsuits they had against the attorneys and some of the things going on, it kind of became a common ground. Bruce Perry had been his attorney and apparently his attorney made a plea agreement with the DA office that he didn’t clear through him. He got rid of that attorney and now has a new one. He had told Kirk Bunch in that interview that Frank Carson was mad people were going to his house. Again, Marlisa Ferreira, corrected him. He said no she didn’t really, but it is in the record that she did.
Again another sidebar. Talking about how he had said breaking into his houses, but Marlisa Ferreira said it was the properties. He said that Baljit Athwal said Frank Carson wanted to get rid of the guy that is doing the thefts. Robert Woody’s testimony was during the time the Athwals were talking to Navar. He said he never had any contact with Robert Woody.
She talked about his “Animal” street name, which he says is his jail name.
Marlisa Ferreira asked about his testimony to the Grand Jury with regards to Garcia. He says it was based on information he received from Garcia himself when they were cellies. Garcia was also his cellie when he was talking to the Athwals. Garcia was a northern dropout, but is now a Northern Rider.
He has playboy tattoos, but they are different from the Northern Riders. He says he is playboy Sureno and they are different. Something about how one is is dipped and not the other. Instead of straight up, the ear is dog tailed.
In 4/20/17 interview, he talks about Gangster, his name was Jose. He never testified against him, he just tried to give information.
In regards to the boy that was stealing comment, she asked if he was referencing Korey Kauffman? He said yes. In that same interview he referred to him as “some dude stealing from Frank Carson’s property”.
At this point Judge Zuniga was telling Marlisa Ferreira to quit leading the witness so much. It is an ongoing thing that she refuses to stop doing. Marlisa Ferreira wanted to argue with her about what she was doing and the Judge called a sidebar.
When they came back from the sidebar. They were talking about the dental work paid for by the Athwals for Robert Woody. There was other stuff that Baljit Athwal said they did for Robert Woody. He did not recall what else he had said. He had to refresh his memory. His memory wasn’t that good. On the other hand it was several years ago. He said they were trying to work Robert Woody up to do the homicide for them. There was some conversation too, in regards to Robert Woody’s testimony, just general talk. He didn’t have any specifics. Marlisa Ferreira asked him, why do people trust you so much that they tell you so much? He said I don’t know, people just share information with me, I’m a likeable guy. They talk about their cases all the time, the red and white people that is what they do. He also talked about his case to them.
Did he know Frank Carson was one of the co-defendants prior to the Athwals being neighbors to him? He was not aware of that. He said Baljit Athwal had given Robert Woody 2 guns, but changed his mind and Daljit Athwal said he would take care of it himself and went and shot the boy. Because Woody started to leave and he was ordered back. They said, come back here you pussy and put him in the trunk. Did Baljit Athwal say there was a deal between Robert Woody and Frank Carson? He didn’t know. There was an objection and a sidebar.
At that point it was 4:00 PM. The jury was sent out. Navar was sent out. The jury is coming back at 9:30 and the attorneys are too. Tomorrow we’ll get more of this circus act. Today was a very interesting day, very intense.
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